tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10815380.post3797384019082876632..comments2024-03-14T12:42:51.995+00:00Comments on Chris Whiteside's Blog: Take on the Lords if they keep ignoring constitutional conventions - but not over Tax CreditsChris Whitesidehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02888720969479013951noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10815380.post-68846160407370671152015-10-28T18:59:35.072+00:002015-10-28T18:59:35.072+00:00"I've got a good idea, but I don't th..."I've got a good idea, but I don't think it will work" does, sadly, describe it perfectly.Chris Whitesidehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02888720969479013951noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10815380.post-2996181813591088692015-10-28T16:59:19.117+00:002015-10-28T16:59:19.117+00:00Hmmm,
lots of tweking needed, the tax rate could...Hmmm,<br /><br />lots of tweking needed, the tax rate could be raised to 30% perhaps, but still there is the base problem, that is the "benefit rate" seems very low, and the "break even wage" is very high.<br /><br />I guess its a nice idea, but not a particularly good one. Falling into the territory of <b><i>I've got a good idea, but I don't think it will work</i></b>Jimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00373005279697295131noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10815380.post-35118679811224361112015-10-27T21:15:44.674+00:002015-10-27T21:15:44.674+00:00Peter - agree absolutely.
Jim - the principle is ...Peter - agree absolutely.<br /><br />Jim - the principle is sound in theory and I remember a fascinating presentation when I was a first year undergraduate from a visiting professor who had been involved in a major study in the states about a system very similar indeed to the one you suggest.<br /><br />The problem as he explained at the time, is getting the numbers to work in a way which would not bankrupt the government.<br /><br />There were somewhere between seventy and a hundred people in the room - perhaps fifty or sixty students, twenty lecturers, and two professors besides the speaker.<br /><br />Having proposed what seemed like a reasonable base level of income - the equivalent of your £10k - and what seemed like a reasonable rate of withdrawing benefit so there was always an incentive to earn more, he also arrived at a point where you stop getting money from the state similar in 1980 money to your £50k.<br /><br />So as he said, "Everyone in this room except Professor Deaton and Professor Bennathan would have their income topped up by the state, and the tax they would have to pay on their income above the break even point would have to fund it. Do you see the problem?"<br /><br />Basically until society is very much richer than it is now, the numbers will not add up - and when society is that much richer, the minimum level of income we think people should have will probably be much higher, so the goalposts will move and the numbers will still not add up.<br /><br />Which is a great pity because it would be an excellent system.<br /><br />(BTW, the Professor Deaton who was at the lecture is the same Professor Angus Deaton who has just been awarded the Nobel Prize for Economics.) Chris Whitesidehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02888720969479013951noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10815380.post-33295933419701511302015-10-27T17:57:27.112+00:002015-10-27T17:57:27.112+00:00Perhaps my explanation there could use refining a ...Perhaps my explanation there could use refining a bit.<br /><br />right so I do nothing - I get £10,000 from the government.<br /><br />I take a job paying £1,000 per year. I get £1,000 from my job, I use £200 of my "citizens payment" as a tax threshold to keep it all, and I get £9,800 payment. meaning I get £10,800 so my work pays.<br /><br />it carries on in this fashion until I am earning £50,000 all by myself, so its all just an I owe you nothing, you owe me nothing situation. anything I earn above that is taxed.<br /><br />as I say the numbers may need to be adjusted so the "citizens payment" is at the correct level, but you see the merit in the idea?Jimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00373005279697295131noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10815380.post-57336011880122751502015-10-27T17:49:32.335+00:002015-10-27T17:49:32.335+00:00one thing (even if slightly off topic) I just do...one thing (even if slightly off topic) I just don't get the idea of "tax credits" I just can not see any sort of logic in taxing people, only to give them cash back. Why not just not take it in the first place? it just makes no sense to me.<br /><br />to be honest neither does the benefit system or tax system, or the idea of benefit caps and things like this. Its all so un necessary.<br /><br />why not take this as a way forward.<br /><br />right everyone, yes that is EVERYONE in the UK who is over 18 gets £10,000 per year from the government, that is EVERYONE. Now if you are not working it does not matter any more you have your "citizens payment", if you are in a high paying job, then the "citizens payment" is taken in the form of a tax threshold, meaning you dont pay tax on the first £50k you earn. If you are in a low paying job then you take it as a comination of a tax threshold and a payment.<br /><br /><br />you see where I am going, (we start at 20% tax, on anything you earn, but Part of the "citizens payment" is used to keep you tax free and the rest is given to you, up until you are earning a decent wage so then its all a tax threshold. anything above that is taxed to pay for everything else.<br /><br />simples. now the sums may need tweaking a bit, but you see the idea, it keeps the system simple and easy, and above all ensures work pays.<br /> Jimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00373005279697295131noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10815380.post-56788033908714574872015-10-27T07:42:12.538+00:002015-10-27T07:42:12.538+00:00So very strongly agree. Reform of the Lords as a ...So very strongly agree. Reform of the Lords as a "retaliation" would be seen as petulant and worse, a bully boy tactic o force through a very controversial policy. We mustn't conflate Lords reform (arguably much needed) and tax credits, if we did it would evermore be seen as the Tory response to dissent. Lords reform is much needed but for now we need to rethink policy on tax credits - clearly there is real concern and we really should be encouraging those in work. One of the indicators of good leadership is recognising that sometimes we get things wrong, test and adjust to make things right!Peternoreply@blogger.com