Scotland and Europe
I think we can take it for granted that those Scots who elected a UKIP Member of the European Parliament earlier this year are not bothered about the probability that Mr Salmond is being entirely too sanguine about the prospects for an Independent Scotland's membership of the EU. But those Scots who want to stay in the EU, and even more so if they want to keep things like the British rebate and opt-out from having to join the Euro, should be.
He's probably right to assume that most Scots would want an Independent Scotland to be a member of the European Union if they leave the British one. Which appears an utterly inconsistent position to me - why on earth do you want Brussels telling you what to do if you're understandably fed up with London doing it - but it does appear to be what most potential "Yes" voters want.
(FWIW my ideal positions on Scotland vis-a-vis the UK and Britain in respect of Europe are identical: I would like to see all four parts of the UK given more autonomy while remaining within the British family of nations, and I would like to see Britain and other member states given more autonomy while remaining within the European family of nations. I know most BOO and UKIP supporters don't think the latter part of that is possible but that is an argument for another day.)
Most of the EU establishment hates the idea of any area leaving, and the SNP are undoubtedly right that some EU officials would like to give an Independent Scotland a "fast track" to membership.
But not all and - here's the rub - all EU countries including the Spaniards have a veto.
Sir Malcolm Rifkind pointed out the other day that the veto is only one of a number of tactics the Spaniards and anyone else worried about a chunk of their own country breaking away might deploy against Scotland to send a signal to their own separatists. For example, - they could easily exacerbate the usual problems of inertia within any huge organisation to make Scotland's entry negotiations drag on for years.
Mr Salmond told the BBC’s Andrew Marr Show at the weekend that he had spoken to the Spanish, French, Italians and Belgians about his assertion that a separate Scotland would start life in the EU.
He repeated his claim that Scotland would not need to apply from scratch and would instead negotiate entry between a Yes vote tomorrow and actual separation in March 2016.
But Jose Manuel Garcia-Margallo, the Spanish Foreign Minister, rejected Mr Salmond’s version of events, telling the Telegraph that he had not even spoken to the SNP leader in two years.
He said Scottish independence would be a “bad result” for the EU as the “Balkanisation” of Europe was contrary to the organisation’s aims.
The French and Belgian governments also said they had held no discussions with the First Minister or the Scottish Government, while the Italians could not find any evidence of talks.
In a further challenge to the SNP position, Inigo Mendez de Vigo, the Spanish European Affairs Minister, said an independent Scotland would be forced to wait at least five years to join the EU and would then have to sign up to the euro.
Gianni Pitella, president of the Progressive Alliance of Socialists and Democrats, a political group in the European Parliament, also warned that an independent Scotland would have no automatic rights to the UK's opt-outs and predicted the application process would “take years”.
As the song goes, Breaking up is hard to do ...
He's probably right to assume that most Scots would want an Independent Scotland to be a member of the European Union if they leave the British one. Which appears an utterly inconsistent position to me - why on earth do you want Brussels telling you what to do if you're understandably fed up with London doing it - but it does appear to be what most potential "Yes" voters want.
(FWIW my ideal positions on Scotland vis-a-vis the UK and Britain in respect of Europe are identical: I would like to see all four parts of the UK given more autonomy while remaining within the British family of nations, and I would like to see Britain and other member states given more autonomy while remaining within the European family of nations. I know most BOO and UKIP supporters don't think the latter part of that is possible but that is an argument for another day.)
Most of the EU establishment hates the idea of any area leaving, and the SNP are undoubtedly right that some EU officials would like to give an Independent Scotland a "fast track" to membership.
But not all and - here's the rub - all EU countries including the Spaniards have a veto.
Sir Malcolm Rifkind pointed out the other day that the veto is only one of a number of tactics the Spaniards and anyone else worried about a chunk of their own country breaking away might deploy against Scotland to send a signal to their own separatists. For example, - they could easily exacerbate the usual problems of inertia within any huge organisation to make Scotland's entry negotiations drag on for years.
Mr Salmond told the BBC’s Andrew Marr Show at the weekend that he had spoken to the Spanish, French, Italians and Belgians about his assertion that a separate Scotland would start life in the EU.
He repeated his claim that Scotland would not need to apply from scratch and would instead negotiate entry between a Yes vote tomorrow and actual separation in March 2016.
But Jose Manuel Garcia-Margallo, the Spanish Foreign Minister, rejected Mr Salmond’s version of events, telling the Telegraph that he had not even spoken to the SNP leader in two years.
He said Scottish independence would be a “bad result” for the EU as the “Balkanisation” of Europe was contrary to the organisation’s aims.
The French and Belgian governments also said they had held no discussions with the First Minister or the Scottish Government, while the Italians could not find any evidence of talks.
In a further challenge to the SNP position, Inigo Mendez de Vigo, the Spanish European Affairs Minister, said an independent Scotland would be forced to wait at least five years to join the EU and would then have to sign up to the euro.
Gianni Pitella, president of the Progressive Alliance of Socialists and Democrats, a political group in the European Parliament, also warned that an independent Scotland would have no automatic rights to the UK's opt-outs and predicted the application process would “take years”.
As the song goes, Breaking up is hard to do ...
Comments
now legally, under the TEU then a state which wants to leave have a 2 year negotiating period to do so. I cant see a legal consistency with an immediate "throw out" of a state that does not want to.
But what kind of can of worms does that open with the Catalans? its an interesting point and Reuters done a good article on this a couple of days ago.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/09/14/us-scotland-independence-eu-insight-idUSKBN0H90DR20140914
Now should a newly independent Scotland have to apply to join the EU? and if so that means an agreement to join the Euro. (only the UK and Denmark are exempt that fate), its a very interesting point, and it will have real percussion's all across the EU, interesting times huh?
There is an interesting article on the ITV site, which I will link to. It describes why Brussels, while publicly trying to be neutral, is praying for a "No" because the Scottish referendum is already causing waves throughout Europe. It also describes some of the problems Scotland will face in rejoining the EU - and they will have to rejoin if they want to become members again. All the issues you raise are valid.